Barrios Vs Segovia – Friends, enemies or just different?

Andrés Segovia has an immovable status as the father of modern classical guitar, he laid the foundations for everything that came later. Without him this modest instrument today would be relegated only to popular and folk music.

That said, there are also many people who criticize his attitudes and even his playing, he is no longer untouchable for the new generation of guitarists.

Something that many people consider remarkable about Segovia is its relationship with the guitar player Agustín Barrios Mangoré, whose name is almost always present today in the repertoire of classical guitarists and is usually considered one of the best composers for the instrument (like a Chopin by the guitar, quoting John Williams).

Despite the recognition Barrios receives today, he was relatively unknown in the classical guitar world during his lifetime. He did not tour Europe or the United States, he gave concerts in Latin America, with success, but the small market did not allow him to make a lot of money. He did not become a world figure, unlike his counterpart in Segovia, who filled prestigious theaters in the most important cities in the world.

Although Barrios came from a country relatively isolated from the musical world, we cannot say that he did not have the opportunity to explode his career. He spent much of his time in one of the world’s cultural centers of the time: Buenos Aires. He did not take advantage of this favorable environment, he devoted himself to giving concerts and making records mostly of popular songs, and he stayed away from the growing community of classical guitarists in Buenos Aires. Llobet, Segovia and other prominent guitarists traveled regularly to give concerts in this city with a large and welcoming audience.

Barrios catered more to the popular music audience, this was due to various reasons discussed elsewhere. Later, he had another great opportunity to further his career, when he met Gino Marinuzzi, the world famous conductor of La Scala Opera de Milan in Rio de Janeiro. He played a private concert for the noted musician and some of his friends and they were warmly congratulated. If he had kept in touch with Marinuzzi, he might have made some contacts with businessmen in Europe and organized some concerts.

Another, and probably the best opportunity he had (although this time it did not depend much on him) was when he met Andrés Segovia. Maestro Segovia, at the time they met, was not yet the world authority on the guitar that he would become in later years, but he was nevertheless in a much better position than Barrios, he was giving concerts in South America and Europe.

Segovia had heard of Barrios before they met in 1921. Miguel Herrera Klinger (Uruguayan biographer) stated that he once overheard a conversation in a guitar shop in Buenos Aires between Andrés Segovia, Regino Sáinz de la Maza and Domingo Prat about Barrios. They were arguing about the metal strings the Paraguayan used. Sáinz de la Maza was the only one who did not reject the steel strings, as long as it was Barrios who played them. To which Segovia said: “Well, as far as I’m concerned, I wouldn’t know what to do with that barbed wire.” This happened around 1912, when Barrios was not yet a mature guitarist and Segovia was just beginning his career.

They finally met in 1921, in Buenos Aires. Segovia was gaining more and more recognition at this time, he was in a much better position than Barrios, that determined the way the meeting took place: Barrios attending a concert in Segovia. After the concert they were introduced by a friend of both. They spoke politely, and Barrios promised to visit him.

This visit took place some time later at Segovia’s house (Barrios was the one who had to go after Segovia). Klinger declared about this meeting: “Barrios played a cascade of musical jewels for the great Segovia who was surprised… even better: his jaw dropped. Almost 2 hours later he was congratulated by the Maestro. One piece in particular he liked a lot and indicated that he would play at his concerts. Barrios gave him an original copy with a dedication. The work that Segovia said he would like to program at his concerts was never played. And logically, if he had played it, with the extraordinary abilities he possessed, he would have elevated Barrios to inaccessible heights, thus undermining their own artistic prestige”.

The work Klinger is talking about here is La Catedral, one of Barrios’ masterpieces. There is a possibility that Barrios never got to give Segovia a copy, since he did not have it with him, he had to ask a friend to send it to him from Uruguay. We do not know for sure if the copy arrived in time, before Segovia left Buenos Aires. But if Segovia had been sincere, he would have helped Barrios organize concerts in Europe and the United States. Many years later, Barrios would realize that Segovia was not his friend and would call him “deaf at heart.” Barrios acknowledged that Segovia was an outstanding coach but did not consider himself “less technical” in any way. Barrios was proud of his identity as a composer, which involved skills and talents far beyond the “mother” acquisition of physical virtuosity.

This is the commonly accepted version, that Segovia had a certain envy and fear of being replaced by Barrios as the guitar authority, and therefore ignored him. There were also other reasons for those rejections that were not related to the competition. These are technical and musical reasons.

Segovia had a reputation as a harsh critic, he never hesitated to criticize important musical figures such as Narciso Yepes and his 10-string guitar, Paco de Lucía and Abel Carlevaro. He had a clear vision of what classical guitar should be and he didn’t accept anyone who went in another direction. Barrios was one of them. Barrios played with metal strings, a very good reason for Segovia to reject him. It could also be that he didn’t like Barrios’ music, since he sometimes had a Latin American folkloric character. He despised everything that related the guitar to popular music.

Segovia’s quote saying that Barrios “is not a good composer for guitar” is famous. David Norton, the student who asked Segovia about Barrios in a masterclass, made the following post in the online forum delcamp.com:

Everyone here knows the quote: “In public, I heard Segovia say that ‘Barrios was not a good composer for guitar.'” Richard Stover has repeated this statement for years, like a kind of mantra.

But that’s not the whole story. This post is. You see, as fate would have it, I was the student who asked Segovia about Barrios that afternoon, and this excerpted quote is his answer to me.

The context is this. Segovia had completed a masterclass at California State University – Northridge (CSUN). I’m thinking this was April 1981 or 1982. It’s not important. The class ended and I, along with 20 or 30 others, were floating in the front. The circumstances were such that Segovia was responding to questions from the students. I found myself less than 4 feet from him, with Stover (my teacher at the time) right next to me.

I asked him: “Maestro, what is your opinion about Barrios’ music that has become so popular lately?” His wife asked me to repeat it because of course they weren’t really listening. I did, she translated.

Segovia paused, and it was clear that he was struggling to find the right words. “Neighborhoods…. was not…. he didn’t write… all bits (he made a gesture with his hands, thumb and forefinger indicating smallness)…. not like Ponce, who wrote great. No, compared to Ponce or Castelnuovo, Barrios is not a good composer for the guitar”.

Stover only really heard the last. He was pretty furious with me for asking, “YOU HAD to ask HIM, in front of God and everyone!! And he just dismissed my life’s work. Thank you so much!!” And he stomped away. A week later, he apologized for overreacting, saying, “So what? He’s an old man, who cares what he thinks? People with some brains know Barrios better.”

And no one who wasn’t there that afternoon would have known about this conversation, if Stover himself hadn’t spent the next few years repeating it over and over again, and then attacking it.

So there you have it, at least as well as I remember the incident 23 or 24 years ago. In context, a 90 year old man, who was obviously very tired after 3 hours of teaching, speaking English (which was never his strong point), and his actual statement is not nearly as damning as Stover’s quote . published over the years.

Do it as you want.

There was another meeting between the two teachers, many years later, at the end of Barrios’ life. In March 1944 Segovia visited San Salvador to give a concert. The two teachers met and spent several hours chatting in the Segovia hotel room. Not a note was played as Barrios was in poor physical shape and Segovia felt a certain pity for his “enemy” as he was forgotten and poor in a relatively isolated country and Segovia knew the fame and recognition his talent deserved. . .

They had a courteous and cordial meeting, where Segovia left Barrios a set of gut strings as a gift.

This story sheds light on his opinion of Barrios’ music. Segovia admired Barrios as a musician but did not want to popularize his music with a folkloric character, his goal was to show the world that the guitar could be considered an art music instrument. This could also be mixed, but I doubt it, with jealousy.

We can blame Segovia for not showing Barrios to the world, but Barrios never did much to become what he should. He wasn’t interested in that. His music was for the people he knew. This can be understood in the biography of him below.

We cannot know for sure the reasons why Segovia rejected Barrios, we can only speculate. What we know is that both Barrios and Segovia missed a great opportunity to make classical guitar even bigger.